Originally Posted By: Ken
However, I'd point out that you typify the problem pointed out in the article: you and the others that you work with find the national "guidelines" inadequate for safe conduct of these activities, which they seemed to document. This would go along with your and DUG's personal experiences.

I have found that the intention of the guidelines and the actual letter of the "guidelines" are often times open to completely different intrepretations. This is where the issue needs resolved on the national level. If a leader, district or council looks at the rule and abides by the intention behind it things are usually Ok. If they look at that same set of words and say "it says (insert verbage here) and this is what it means (repeat previously inserted verbage)" then something gets missed.

Originally Posted By: Ken
"Some parents think the organization should not depend on local councils and troops to comply with voluntary national safety recommendations."


I think that the key word in that statement is "voluntary" and that is where an outsiders misinterpretation might lie... most of the trainings issued by the BSA National level are NOT voluntary for Troops wanting to explore the outdoors. Before a group is allowed to go on anything longer then a dayhike, leaders MUST attend certain trainings. Now... to be fair it is not necessary for EVERY leader to have the trainings, but at least one leader on the outing must. These include, but are not limited to the IOLS (Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills), Hazardous Weather Training, Swim on Safely, Boating Safely... etc. A new regulation passed this year requires all "high adventure" activities to be accompanied by a leader certified in Wilderness First Aide (guess what my next training is?)

Before climbing activities happen there MUST be a certified climbing instructor present and you should see the list of restrictions and specifications that the gear must meet before teh boys can use it.

Before a swimming activity (or any activity involving water) happens, there are certain guidelines and requirements that must be met including having a CPR trained person present and a certified lifeguard.

There are some trainings that are voluntary and can be cost prohibitive.. PowderHorn and Woodbadge to name a couple. However, these specific trainings focus more on the program itself and what a leaders role is in working with the boys and shaping the troop and leadership skills on interacting with the youth.... and not in preparing us, as leaders, for teh outdoor part of the program.

Originally Posted By: Ken
When I read "Adding even more rigid rules would increase bureaucracy and make activities even harder to organize, some parents say."---I think, Oh, my God...we are back to priorities.


I agree with you here... and disagree with the statement. More rigid rules could possibly make activities harder to organize in that we would have to ensure that all fo the training requirements are met. Last year when I started planning our Spring Break trip for this year I had ALL of the training requirements necessary... then this summer National added the requirement of Wilderness First Aide before any "high adventure" activity. That threw a wrench in my works and made me have to change my plans slightly. Am I saying that I canceled the trip or changed the venue? No... I'm saying that now, in addition to all the other planning, reservations and organization required for a trip like this... I have to schedule a training and get as many of my leaders as possible to attend it.


Originally Posted By: Bulldog34
The biggest challenge these organizations face is cultural, though. At some point in the early teen experience, scouting becomes un-cool to be involved in. Burchey called his troop a "dumping ground for the socially retarded", and he felt the need to get out. While that is an extreme characterization, there's no getting around the fact that negative peer pressure about scouting drives a lot of boys and girls out of their organizations during very critical formative years. I don't know how that gets improved, but I think it's a priority that we find a way. Maybe a super-popular Boy Scout Rap will come out of nowhere and turn the tide, but I doubt it.


I don't know about the "dumping ground" thing... my Troop was chartered with a mission statement specific to including physically, mentally and emotionally handicapped and disabled youth in our program. The boys in my troop who do not live wiht disabilities are shown how to work with the youth who do and are guided in how to work with these other children to help them succeed to the best of their abilities within the scouting program. They interact with the all the youth in our troop at as much the same level as possible and all of our activities, to the best of our ability, include some sort of adapted program for the boys unable to participate in the full activity with the rest of the boys.

I've seen this strange phenomenom of social akwardness though. It's kind of like when a child hits that age where it is no longer "cool" to tell their parent "I love you" in front of their friends... and the parent, instead, gets some mumbled gobbldygook under the childs breath as they turn away.

How to fix that is, indeed, a dilemma. Last year when we went to Zion National Park for Spring Break we stopped in Mesquite, NV for gas, restroom and snacks. When we travel it is required that the boys and leaders all wear their Class "A" uniform shirts. You know the ones.. the khaki colored ones with the BSA emblem patches and all that cool stuff? Well... we went into the gas statoin mini market and there were some teenage girls there... one of my older boys automatically took his uniform shirt off and shoved it under his arm (he had a t-shirt) on underneath. I, of course, couldn't let this pass. So I strolled up to him (in my full uniform) and confronted him... "Not cool enough to be a Boy Scout?" in front of the girls... He just grinned at me and put his uniform back on.. the girls laughed and still talked to him...

As leaders we have a struggle on our hands to not only overcome the stigma of "nerdiness" associated with Scouts... but to help these youth (girls and boys alike) through the formidable teen years. The good news though is that, like the saying "I love you" to a parent, the kids seem to outgrow the embarrasment of admitting that they're Scouts as they get a little older and most of them learn to take pride in what they've done.

These are the youth who go on to get their Eagle Scout (or the Venturing Gold Award for females) and become the military leaders, the astronauts and the Presidents, and the heros of our future.