Mt Whitney Zone Forums The Chat Room Torn labrum & rotator cuff

Well, this IS the chat room.

On the wpsmb group hike weekend, my right shoulder was pretty much incapacitated. I couldn't even raise my arm to shake hands with anyone.

Since then, the shoulder has made significant progress. I can lift and carry stuff, and it only hurts to lift the arm in certain odd positions. And it aches every night when I'm trying to sleep -- go figure.

I've had an MRI, and this afternoon I had my appt. with the shoulder surgeon. He's like an old friend, now, since he repaired my left shoulder two years ago.

So THIS time, I have a nearly 1 inch tear in the labrum, which he says will not recover, and a slight tear in the rotator cuff, which CAN recover on its own. (Ok Laura, what's the labrum do and where is it?)

Since the shoulder is getting better, I decided to wait several more months to let it continue to mend. Besides, its winter, and I hope to get in a little skiing and snowmobiling. Dr. says don't fall when skiing, and don't lift too much.

It just stinks when the body gets older, but the mind is stuck somewhere between 25 and 30.

Sorry to hear that Steve. What is it with guys and shoulders? One out of every 4 or 5 guys I know has had issues or surgery. I've been wrestling with a rotator cuff in my right shoulder, along with tendinitis in both shoulders, for maybe the past ten years. Major PITA. I've thought several times about taking climbing classes, but the shoulders would probably be a huge liability.

So are you going to need surgery for the labrum?

What's with guys and shoulders? This: The mind says "Do it", body says "Can't!"

Problem with shoulders is that there aren't any nerves in the places that tear, so you never feel it -- there is no pain before it breaks or tears, and no pain when it happens. In fact, I don't know exactly when it occurred. But it sure hurt like crazy afterward. On the left shoulder two years ago, there was no afterward pain either. It just really hurt to try to lift anything over my head.

I'll probably need surgery, but since the healing process is continuing, I'm going to wait and see. If it gets better to the point that it doesn't bother me, and I can do most things without any problems, then I'll put it off indefinitely.

Steve the Labrum is the cartilage between the head of the humerus and the glenoid fossa that is the receiver for the ball and socket type joint.A labrum tear will not heal because it is cartilage.Carilage has no blood supply so it can't repair.Once torn it is never going to heal. It is possible to lay flat and not cause problems if you are not real active with the shoulder.If you are real physicaly active with the shoulder then surgery is the most likely option.There is no therapy or treatment other than rest or disuse that will offer any option other than surgery.

Rod, thanks for the explanation. That is the first time I heard the word "cartilage" equated to it, and that helps me understand a whole lot better. (Why can't the doctor say those words?)

Then it must be like a torn meniscus in the knee, which is the cartilage, too (correct me if I am wrong). The doctor DID say the same thing as you, "has no blood supply so it can't repair."

Since I am not one to go for the rest and disuse path, I guess I'll opt for surgery. ...maybe in the spring.

But then, all the surgery can do is cut away and smooth the torn material, right? And if enough is torn, they remove the entire part, right? Which leaves a painful bone-to-bone contact??

Crimony! How does simply reaching and lifting cause the cartilage to tear?

It is exactly like a torn meniscus which is also cartilage.The surgery is usually to remove the torn piece. The labrum in the shoulder is relatively small as the glenoid fossa is not a large receiver socket. Trouble with torn labrum is that they restrict movement and are painful. It is the worse shoulder injury for sure.

Because we are always on "top"



of things if you know what I mean!

Ah-hem...

glucosamine...

Be sure to ask your orthopedic surgeon about this.

Take it from a guy who does 500 pushups, 100 pullups, 100 bardips a day and was a former powerlifter...

I'd look into a second or third opinion...

If you already have, the body can do wondrous and magnificent things.

Yeah, I know, Gary -- you're an animal! Obviously there is a benefit to keeping all those parts working hard.

The most important phase of post-surgery is, of course, the physical therapy side. Listen to your therapist. Do not overdo. Give time for your body to recover. Yes, we are old (me 52 but age ain't nothin' but a number). I don't recommend going out and doing the things I do, but if I can do it, so can you. It just takes a little bit of time.

I had some significant pain in my right shoulder. Years ago, it "killed" me to shake another person's hand, because my shoulder hurt so bad just to lift my right arm. I would wake up in the middle of the night and it felt like my whole right arm was paralyzed and I had to take my other hand just to move it in a more comfortable position. It hurt to play softball (I bat and throw left; very hard to raise my glove to shag flies and grounders). It hurt to do pullups.

I narrowed down my agony to deadlifting (one of the disciplines in powerlifting). What was I doing wrong? I wasn't stretching before lifting. Hmmm...

I read a medical article on deadhanging by grabbing an overhead bar with a pronated grip and just hang there.

Then I said "eff-it" and started doing deadhangs. My first time I was writhing in agony. Pain is weakness leaving the body...yeah, right. I "adapted, improvised, overcame" by using a step ladder to have me start with my chin above the bar and hold it there until I could no longer and allow gravity to pull me down to full extension. Ask any Women Marines about this...it is part of their physical fitness test...it is called the flexed arm hang.

Now before every deadlift, I will deadhang. I will not jump up and grab the bar, but I will ease myself up to the bar and lower myself gently until full extension.

The pain does not exist anymore. It mysteriously disappeared. No surgery, no drugs. It just went away.

I wouldn't recommend this for anyone.

As a chiropractor we are pretty much against most surgery and drug treatments especially when conservative care will work. I have always believed body parts actually work better if they don't cut them out and they remain in your body.
That being said you have to access what it is that you like to do that is your passion, and makes you happy versus what injuries it has caused or can cause.Those are the most important considerations for opting for surgery on a labrum tear.
Some people who are not real active with their arms and shoulders can do fine without surgey with a labrum tear.Others can't funtion at all.Very active people who pack,climb,snow and water ski,throw a ball,etc. will find it very difficult to opt out of labrum surgery.There is no definitive one size fits all answer.

> Years ago, it "killed" me to shake another person's hand, because my shoulder hurt so bad just to lift my right arm. I would wake up in the middle of the night and it felt like my whole right arm was paralyzed and I had to take my other hand just to move it in a more comfortable position.

Yep, sounds like something was torn in the shoulder. Since it healed on its own, it was probably a rotator cuff and not the labrum (NON-medical opinion, so beware!) But I am well acquainted with the problem of waking in the middle of the night with the shoulder in pain. That's ME! Actually, got a cortisone shot yesterday, and slept pretty well last night.

Maybe I'll try that dead-hang advice. I can do the pull-down weight bar ok without any pain, so I'll try doing a little more.

The doctor recommended doing lots of range-of-motion exercises to keep the joint active, even with the tear.

Rod, I'm not ready to give up all those activities yet. I'm pretty sure I'll have that surgery.

With the pulldown bar, go easy on the weight. Put it on the lightest weight possible (or no weight at all).

Keep your arms locked and extended...

Then ease yourself down to your knees and keeping those arms locked. If there is any kind of discomforting pain...STOP RIGHT THERE!

Another option is to lie flat on your back. Grab a broom handle and with your arms locked, do an arc with your arms from your waist to over and above your head. Again, any pain...STOP RIGHT THERE.

Also, try swimming or try getting those styrofoam dumbbells and immerse in the pool and start doing shoulder exercises.

Consult with your ortopedic surgeon or physical therapist before doing ANY OF THE ABOVE!

Hang in there, Steve C.
No pun intended.
This, too, shall pass...