Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Yosemite & Delaware North

The outgoing concessionaire at Yosemite trade-marked the name of the park, Ahwahnee and other place names without the knowledge of the Parks Service.

Please go to the Petition: here

They boast proudly on their web site of their "Values":
- Corporate Social Responsibility
- Global Stewardship
- GreenPath
- GuestPath

As you might expect, in light of their current action, mostly BS

They also post the many "Venues" that they manage. Take a look, and think about boycotting their venues. Perhaps they will respond to a different "value". I am not suggesting not using the venue, just do not purchase anything. By all means go to Yosemite Park, but try not to buy food, or use the hotels.

See: http://www.delawarenorth.com

I wonder how many other places within their list of venues they have "trademarked".

In my opinion, a truly slimy move on their part.

I'll bet all national parks contracts made from now on will have a paragraph stating that all trademark names associated with landmarks and facilities within the contract cannot be claimed by the vendor after the contract expires.

This is sort of a silly topic that is generating a lot of ink.

First of all, trademarks fall into two general categories:
1. Trademark
2. Registered trademark

Having possession of an actual, original use, commercial trademark is orders of magnitude of greater value than a generic US issued 'registered' trademark.

Case in point: the Washington Redskins. The current administration, for various political purposes, directed the US PTO (US patent & trademark office) to rescind the Redskins US registered trademark. Did this invalidate the Redskins actual trademark? No. Anyone notice people selling unauthorized Redskins merchandise, using the name, etc? No; the reason being is any court would issue an immediate stay.

So let's get back to the issue of DNC. That they were able to get a US registered trademark on many place names, buildings, etc issued by the PTO will amount to nothing when this case comes up against "real" trademark claims (eg original use, etc) held by the NPS. (Most likely, a clerk in the PTO simply issued the registered trademarks because in many ways, it appeared that DNC was acting almost in the park's capacity. Mistake noted.)

However, when DNC's action comes up before a federal court hearing on the issue of trademark ownership, I wouldn't be surprised to see an immediate rejection. I mean, the case is laughable on its face. My guess is the $3m number the NPS is throwing out there is simply the cost of litigation to get each and every trademark officially back in their possession.

So DNC can take the $3m, or they can spend their own $ defending the claim, and get -0- when the entire laundry list is handed back to the NPS.

I noticed that the Sport Shop in Yosemite had a 40% off sale going on when I was there for new years. Picked up a few trinkets.

General Store seemed a little sparser than normal as well.

I guess they are trying to clear out as much as possible.


As for the renaming... I hope they take their time and don't change any signs permanently. I'm assuming that the courts will invalidate DNC's so called trademarks, but it'll take time.

Gene Rose: Corporate name grab is just latest attack on Yosemite

I read the Gene Rose article. It would be nice to take Yosemite visitation levels back 50 years, but reality is that there are just a whole lot more people now. His article seems to be siding with the "Friends of Yosemite" whose lawsuit has tried to force Yosemite to pick a number of visitors allowable within the park.

Unless they set up a lottery for people to get tickets to even enter Yosemite Valley, there will always be crowds, and there will always be old timers decrying "what they have done".

At some point, the world and governments need to come up with ways to discourage our expanding population. (I can think of a few that are far less problematic than the Chinese one-child rule.) Until the expansion stops, places like Yosemite will be forever more and more crowded and less enjoyable for those in the crowds.

Let it go or drop it, DNC...

Better yet, why not "Sailaway South"...

Totally agree with you - I kept thinking "where do you want these crowds to go to the bathroom unless you build these facilities?"

In my view, Yosemite was already too crowded to be enjoyable for more than a few hours in the 1980s when I first visited the park. Even in those days I was always glad to get out of there and head for the backcountry. Pretty place, but too many people for my taste. I am looking for a very different outdoor experience than the one you can have in that valley. The only good thing about the attraction the valley has is that it is a magnet for crowds that otherwise may flood the backcountry places I prefer.

If the conversation is overpopulation in our National Parks, I think this is key, Fishmonger. Most tourists are just that. They don't want the challenge and discomfort of actual wilderness, so they just view the natural wonder of YV. Just like they flock to every other tourist attraction in the world. There's plenty of space once you get backcountry. And if being completely alone is top priority, I'd probably leave California, and head to places of relative untouched wilderness, with plenty still within the US and vast expanses outside as well. I am wholeheartedly opposed to the government dictating or even suggesting population control measures for the benefit of those who want quiet space without having to travel far from home.

In terms of NDC, it seems (as mentioned already) that from a legality standpoint, they probably don't have a lot of room to work. But everything's worth a try in business

Actually, Chris B, all one needs to do to find actual wilderness is Get Off The Trail. I particularly enjoy off-trail hiking, pick my own routes from maps, then go see what is there. Days like that give me many hours and miles without seeing anyone. All this in the Sierra in California!

I have several favorite off-trail routes that are particularly sweet.

As for government dictating: Nobody wants that -- I just wish they'd stop giving tax breaks for more kids, and more cash for more kids in AFDC.

I head into Yosemite every year, usually in July and always from the east, but almost never go further west than Tuolumne. This past July we thought we'd take our daughter back down into the Valley. It had been ten years since we had been there and she didn't remember it, having been only five.

It had been a zoo in July of '05, but in July of '15 it was a three-ring circus on steroids. We drove around for almost an hour looking for a parking space. The crowding was beyond ridiculous. Everywhere we went might as well have been a weekday Manhattan sidewalk at lunchtime. I've been to almost every major national park in the system, and nothing compares. Disney World is the only place that I've been to that's equivalent in terms of paying good money to be overcrowded, uncomfortable, and irritable, with little to no redeeming experience.

Our daughter, age 15 and quite used to big-city crowds, finally said after two hours, "Can we just, like, GO? This is no fun and the other side of the park is prettier." She meant the eastern side, where she had spent most of her Yosemite life.

I agreed thoroughly, but on the way out I managed to find a parking spot near El Cap and walked her up to the base to show her what the Valley really felt like without the crowds. Peaceful, quiet, beautiful.

That night I ranted on FB about how the Valley had been thoroughly spoiled by overdevelopment. I was surprised at the number of people that responded that, no, that really wasn't the case, it's only like that for a couple of months each year. I'd be curious to know what percentage of the park's annual visitation is contained in that "couple of months." To me, that's like saying, no, Whitney doesn't have an overuse problem - except a couple of months each year.

Whatever. One thing I can swear to, though - it'll be at least another ten years before I have any desire to set foot in that Valley in summer.

We also go Tuolumne every summer. Our son is the same age as your daughter. Like you, we haven't been to the Valley for around 10 years. Even then, it was much as you described it with the congestion, etc.

This past summer, I did a day hike up to Donohue (http://www.highsierratopix.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12987), and ended up talking to a NOBO PCTer on the way back to the campground. He mentioned that he & his friends were planning on going into the Valley the next day. While having never visited before, he had heard it was quite "different" from the quiet solitude of the PCT. I laughed and said "you ever been to NYC?" He said, yeah, but then I said "how about Times square on New Year's eve?" Well, maybe it's not that bad, but closer than not. I concluded by saying if you've never been, well obviously you have to go, but be prepared to be disappointed with the crowds.

As far as population growth, California for obvious reasons is in a league of its own. We're fortunate to be able to travel, and it's definitely somewhat ironic that places like Italy (Rome & Florence), which had/have a reputation for being crowded, thus providing the primary driver for emigration to the US, are now in comparison quite quaint. Outside the main city centers, it's essentially countryside the way I remember Calif in the 60s as a kid.

Anyone my generation knows what I'm talking about: virgin rolling hills that would be (and have been long ago) attacked by bulldozers in Calif, and yet peacefully just going on the same way they have for 1,000s of years. While pop growth is a world wide problem, there are certain places that are somehow seemingly escaping the crush. I'm talking E Europe, Croatia, etc.

We take the YARTS from Oakhurst.

Less hassle of finding parking spots this time of year. The views are amazing with all of the snow and rain runoff.

The waterfalls overfloweth. Where I live in Oakhurst, we have received 8.67 inches of rain for the month of January compared to 0.26 in 2015 and 1.92 inches in 2014.

We are bracing for February, March, and April.

I will still call the Wawona the Wawona, the Ahwahnee the Ahwahnee, and the Curry Village the Curry Village. Sue me for copyright infringement or intellectual property...whatever. Souvenir hunters are buying up all of the "old stuff."

I am curious, how many people were on the YARTS bus any time you took it? I saw them often, but never could see how many passengers. I see they are still running some in winter!

If they catch on, probably a lot of people will ride.

Hardly any people on the bus into Yosemite since we catch the 5:34 from Raley's.

In the afternoon on the return, few but not many. Sure beats driving those winding roads from Oakhurst.

Paul sent me this link from sfgate.com

Hardball at Yosemite National Park

Puts an interesting perspective on the issue: DNC was required to pay "$61.5 million for tangible and intangible assets in 1992". This article makes it appear that they are just trying to get their money back.

Of course it does. But They have got their money back many times over. They are trying to get an additional 50 million or so from holding the trademarks hostage.

Steve, are you going to trademark "Whitney Zone." Should be worth a few million. LOL

A few million? Yen? Reichsmarks?