Steve thought it may be helpful to start a discussion on glissading, since many people don't know how to do it, and get hurt glissading in the wrong conditions. If you don't have experience with glissading, Trail Crest is not the place to learn. There have been multiple fatalities in this area and others have been badly hurt. Here is a video showing my glissade, as well as some self-criticism.
I apologize for the shakiness of the video. I did not have a chest harness for my camera.
Some notes:
Glissade starts @ 1:38.
We intentionally kept our speed down and stopped several times to move over to the right, to avoid the rocks on our left. You can see us moving over at 2:37.
I believe we started our glissade around 11 am. The snow was very soft for most of the trip down. At 3:10 I stop with very little effort.
Conditions change quickly. At 3:36, you can see my first self arrest. It is so icy that immediately pick up speed when I turn over and I need to self arrest again @ 3:45.
The self arrest at 3:36 could have been performed better. I can see that the ice axe was nearly perpendicular to my body. It should have run diagonally across my body, from my left shoulder to my right hip. It appears that my 2nd self arrest @ 3:45 was better.
At 4:01, I move to the left and use the path that my father-in-law just created. It usually isn't a good idea to take an established path as they can be very icy. Since this path was just broken though, the snow was soft and the rest of my glissade was very controlled.
I'm glad you had a safe adventure; others haven't. SAR members can probably relate having to rescue injured climbers (or dead climbers) who lost control while glissading. While on Inyo SAR I was involved in a body recovery in the same area you were glissading; climber loss of control and killed on impact with a rock.
I don't know your level of experience, but yes, your self-arrest technique could use some improvement...practice, practice, practice.
For the less-experienced who read this forum, here is an excellent video from the British Mountaineering Council:
1. Never attach the ice-axe to yourself with a sling. If you lose the axe while out of control, you can end up with a deadly instrument flying around you. This happened to me on the Palisade Glacier. I was fortunate to walk away uninjured.
2. Never, never do a standing glissade. This is nothing but a possible ticket to the E.R. It happens a lot - broken ankles and legs.
3. Get self-arrest instruction from a competent professional. Take a basic winter mountaineering course.
I realize that some in this forum will take exception to these recommendations, to which I say "too bad".
I don't know your level of experience, but yes, your self-arrest technique could use some improvement...practice, practice, practice.
I agree. I get out as much as I can, but the opportunities are somewhat limited here in southern CA.
Originally Posted By: Bob West
1. Never attach the ice-axe to yourself with a sling. If you lose the axe while out of control, you can end up with a deadly instrument flying around you. This happened to me on the Palisade Glacier. I was fortunate to walk away uninjured.
That's the first time that I've heard this, but it makes sense. I noticed that in the instructional videos online, you don't see any slings. Here is one that I like:
Note: Everyone BEWARE! People have died attempting to glissade on Mt. Whitney! Here are some guidelines:
1. Never glissade wearing crampons. Crampons can catch quickly and snap an ankle.
2. Never glissade withOUT an ice axe for a brake.
3. On Mt. Whitney, the top of the slope can be soft, but iced-up below, since the afternoon sun shadow starts at the bottom and moves up. So late afternoon can be treacherous.
4. Learn and practice self-arrest techniques and glissading before trying to glissade from Trail Crest on Mt. Whitney.
Plunge stepping (walking down facing away from the mountain and plunging your heels into the snow) is a much better way to descend. It’s much safer, and it’s almost as fast.
Glissading is dangerous, you can ruin an expensive pair of pants, and you will get your ass cold and wet. Not only can you lose control and possibly get killed, you can hit an unseen rock and do yourself considerable damage. The cold, wet ass can be a big deal staggering back to your car in the dark in cold weather.
Newbies (including me, 28 years ago) always think glissading is cool and want to learn how to do it. I asked the guides or Raineer about it, and they more or less said what I said above. The only time I will glissade is when the snow is so deep and sloppy that I can’t really walk down it. And if the snow is that sloppy, you might want to be elsewhere because of avalanche danger. I probably haven’t glissaded in ten years.
And for a slightly different view... On a warm day (so you don't have to worry about the slope icing up, and it's warm enough that your non-cotton pants will dry out), glissading is a lot of fun and a quick way to descend over a thousand feet.
It's been over ten years since I glissaded the slope west of the 99 switchbacks, and the conditions were right: Warm, and ample snow.
We did NOT have crampons on, since we had just descended from spending a night at the summit, but were carrying full packs. However, even in THOSE conditions, one person wearing her full backpack and using ice axe for a brake, did a complete 360 forward roll, but continued on un-phased.
The one thing that might help protect the pants and the wet butt: take along a garbage bag, make two holes at the bottom just big enough for your legs, and wear it on the way down. Ours protected the pants from the abrasion, but snow still got inside.
Watching out for rocks sticking up in the glissade trough is really important. I would hate to hit one and get a bruise, or worse, a tail bone injury. Keeping speed slow enough to be able to stop, or at least roll out of a rock path is important.
But again I stress this: warm enough that you will dry out, and warm enough that there is no danger of ice.
one person wearing her full backpack and using ice axe for a brake, did a complete 360 forward roll, but continued on un-phased.
I would not consider that an example of a success, but a lucky escape, neck intact. Next time - snap! Unphased? Should have scared the s out of her or anyone watching.
I should have been more precise in my previous post. Glissade simply means to slide down the snow. You can glissade standing or sitting. A standing glissade is also called boot skiing.
When I descend a snow slope, I typically use a combination of three techniques: Plunge step (as I described in my previous post), French technique (where I walk with my boots or crampons flat against the snow or ice), and a standing glissade. I switch among these techniques quickly as conditions change. This makes for a fast, safe descent. I may use either ski poles or an ice axe, depending on conditions. Crampons are optional, again, depending on conditions.
Every newbie thinks the sitting glissade is cool, fast, and fun, at least until something goes wrong. Most of us either have screwed up or know someone who screwed up doing a sitting glissade. My wife did a spectacular ass-over-teakettle when she tried it. Steve’s partner did the same. Bob West admits to a dangerous mistake on the Palisades Glacier. (It’s glissading out of control, not having a leash on his axe, that made it so dangerous.) There are countless stories of accidents (and a few deaths) doing sitting glissades down from Trail Crest. I once saw a guy spend the night in a sleeping bag on the side of the slope above UBSL because he broke his leg doing a sitting glissade. (A rescue team was there, but they couldn’t move him or get a helicopter until the next day.) And then there is R.J.Secor’s injury (in Bob West’s post). How many of you know someone else who had a bad outcome doing a sitting glissade?
As Steve points out, a sitting glissade really can be safe, fast, and fun under the right conditions. But those are the same conditions where I would basically jog down the mountain, sliding a little with each step. When I came down from Trail Crest in January 2011, Bulldog34 saw my Spot track and thought I must have done a sitting glissade. Nope! My pants were dry and my ass was warm when I got back to camp that night.
I wasn't trying to encourage people to glissade. I do know that people will try to do it without a way to stop, while wearing crampons, and/or without prior experience, partially due to the fact that they do not see it as dangerous.
We met a group of 6? that were planning on glissading. 1 ice axe in the group. 4 were planning on using their hiking poles to self arrest. 1 was going to borrow a pole from someone. No one in the group had ever glissaded. All were surprised to hear that people had been hurt/killed 'sliding.' I have no idea if they ended up glissading, but I did give them something to think about. I hoping that having a discussion here could prevent future injuries. At least two people in that group were aware of this website.
Have to admit, I glissaded this slope twice, completely wrong. Once astride my '64 Kelty, using the trailing frame members as a brake. In perfect conditions of course, heavy, wet August (1967) slush. Once with a day pack on a disposable poncho. Again perfect conditions, before noon on the summer solstice (1994). Both slides were so slow I was paddling most of the way until stopped by the build-up of slush in front of me about 300 feet from the terminal moraine. Lucky, I guess. Never again w/o proper technique and same conditions. DO not try this at home. Your mileage absolutely will vary.
When I came down from Trail Crest in January 2011, Bulldog34 saw my Spot track and thought I must have done a sitting glissade. Nope! My pants were dry and my ass was warm when I got back to camp that night.
I remember that, Bob. The super-heavy snow year when some on the board insisted the switchbacks couldn't be negotiated with just crampons and axe, but required full-on technical ice skills and equipment.
You went up with crampons, ice axe, and maybe snowshoes, which as I recall you didn't really need. And you covered the round trip from Bighorn Park in those extreme conditions faster than a lot of folks could in a dry summer. Up the switchbacks and down the chute and, yes, I assumed you did a butt-glissade. I had seen your SPOT track somewhere around the JMT junction on the descent and the next time I looked, not very long after, you were below Trail Camp. Still hard to believe that was done standing.
Hi, Gary! I used snowshoes to get to camp, but left them there for the summit push. I carried an axe, but only used it for a few minutes descending from Trail Crest. The trip report and discussion are here. BTW, my profile picture is from that trip.
63Chevyll makes an important point. The biggest danger with sitting glissades may be the temptation for idiots to do it wrong, rather than the inherent danger. Either way, I’m no fan of sitting glissades.
63Chevyll makes an important point. The biggest danger with sitting glissades may be the temptation for idiots to do it wrong, rather than the inherent danger. Either way, I’m no fan of sitting glissades.
I had heard about a few of the accidents that happened in that area and made sure that my father in law was well aware of the risks. Most of the time, my glissade was very controlled - I believe the shakiness of the video makes it look like I was going faster than I actually was. I did self arrest twice in one area, doing so as soon as the feel/hardness of the snow changed and before I got out of control. I came to a stop several other times without doing anything. Every time my father in law stopped on his glissade, he did so without self-arresting.
I guess part of my thinking that I did not express in my original post was that we started our glissade under what some would consider ideal conditions - there was plenty of snow that had softened up after being in the sun for several hours, we had equipment needed to stop our glissade if needed and experience using that equipment. Even with those things going for us, there was the potential of getting in a bad situation.
A few years back, as I was climbing Mt. Baldy a woman glissaded by me with an axe in a position I have never seen and her crampons on. This was a steep section and very fast. She asked, "Am I doing this right?" Nooooo!!! I replied. This was the first time I climbed the Bowl...I swore I would never come back on a weekend. I made the mistake of going again this past winter and had a woman slid by me with her finest Microspikes and trekking poles...and she was not the worst prepared person on the mountain. This time I mean it...I ain't going anywhere near that mountain on the weekends.
The biggest danger is people. People who do what they want to do, when they want to do it with gear they have no experience with. Good luck convincing them they are putting themselves at risk.
You can rent your dull aluminum crampons at Elevations in Lone Pine; however, you can not rent experience and self arrest skills at the same location...those you need to purchase with time spent on your local mountains in the winter.
When I did the chute in 2007, on my return to Trail Crest on a May day the temperature did not get above 40 F. I down climbed out of the shade before starting my glissade. I self arrested a 3-4 times, too rest my arms and to control speed.
There was one other group glissading that day...a near perfect number.
I climb all winter in SoCal. I rarely glissade because conditions are not good. We climbed Big Draw this winter in the SG Wilderness. It was so icy at the top we decided it was in our best interest to trek over to the Charlton/Little Charlton divide and snowshoe out. The name of the game is recognizing what is beyond doing, then not doing it. The glissade from Trail Crest is an appetizing treat. I know enough to recognize when it time walk out. The renters don't.
I, on the other hand, am a huge fan of glissading. Last June I glissaded down the chute next to the 99 switchbacks in soft, slow snow and used my poles when I needed to check my speed (which never got very fast and certainly never out of control in the soft slush). What I felt more dangerous was post-holing through the snow back to the trail - the occasional collapse and getting a leg/ankle caught in the boulders below.
Two weekends ago I glissaded down one of the chutes of San G (again, in soft, sticky slush) and didn't need to check my speed at all - I wanted to go faster!
And just this past weekend I glissaded down Tyndall where I went over a couple icy patches, but with my piolet I stayed in complete control. Snow conditions were great for the glissade. I didn't bother glissading down Shepherd Pass due to rocks and thin snow cover, instead I made solid plunge steps.
It's all about individual risk tolerance and evaluating the conditions.
I did not say I am not a fan of glissading. I said, you have to know when a safe opportunity exists.
If you have an modicum of experience, you should be able to recognize when a green light opportunity exists. If you rent for the first time at Mt. Whitney and you return to the chute on a cold day the the runs are shaded over, you may not be able to recognize safe glissading conditions do not exist.
I am at six people sliding by me out of control and counting. 3 ended up with free helicopter ride, one lost $1,000 of electronics, one got saved by a snag and one after an unintended face glissade looked the part.
This is serious business and should be taken as such...fun is an extra.
