Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Human Waste Disposal in Backcountry:How to pee/poop in woods

Most hikers, backpackers, and climbers know that answering the call of nature in the backcountry can present an interesting (sometimes embarrassing) challenge. At the very least, it may cause uncertainty. What are the rules? When and where is it okay to dig? What's this "blue bag" business?

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http://www.trailspace.com/articles/backcountry-waste-disposal.html

Thanks Bee. I especially like this picture in that article:

Hmmm...I guess the dozen WAG bags I saw along the trail in September were a apparition because we all know Mt. Whitney hikers are tough...or my ancient eyes were playing tricks on me.

Love the sign!

This is a good time to archive one of the most interesting discussions I've read on the topic of backcountry waste disposal, and an interesting technique: 3P

This was created by Ron Moak (Fallingwater), PCT veteran:
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With respect to my background and reasoning process. It's derived from a
Degree in Forest Management combined with working three years in a major
sewage treatment plant. This provides a pretty good basis for understanding
the forest ecology, forest by products (TP) and waste management.

Since I was the original author of the 3 P's (poop, pee and puree) method of
waste disposal I thought I'd offer a few comments to the ongoing thread.

I've read most of the posts related to this topic with a fair degree of
indifference. Fundamentally it matters little to me how you treat your TP as
long as it is done environmentally (ie no forest fires please) and it's done
in a LNT manner (ie. I don't have to see it). So pack it out, burn it, bury
it in 6 foot hole, go au'natural or do the 3 P's if that's your fancy.

In general with discussions like this, we like to simplify the problem.
Simple problems are much easier to solve than complex ones. So we'll boil
the whole proper waste disposal discussion into "Get rid of the TP eyesore".
Since we've simplified the problem, let's find a simple solution. One that's
easy to remember and easy to convey when we want to pound it into someone
else's head who doesn't happen to agree with us. In this case "PACK IT OUT".
You got admit is goes well with our current nanosecond attention span.

When I originally proposed the 3 P's method, I wanted something that was
environmentally sound. Admittedly, I don't cherish the thought of packing
out used toilet paper.

Of all of the methods of dealing with waste disposal, the 3 P's is the most
environmentally sound. Why, because it deals not only with the toilet paper,
it's designed to aid in the breakdown of the waste as well.

Our bodies to an amazing job squeezing moisture out of our waste before it's
deposited. Scatology is a whole science devoted to the study of petrified
poop.

The purpose of the 3 P's is add moisture, in the form of pee or a cup of
water if you're empty, to the mix to aid in the growth of bacteria. They, in
turn, will naturally compost the waste. The TP acts as a sponge and soaks up
the moisture, slowly releasing it back as needed. By slowly releasing the
water, you increase the amount of time available to compost the waste.

Pureeing the mixture, incorporates the TP within the waste. Properly done,
there is no sign of the TP. It also mixes in some of the surrounding soil
that contains microbes helpful in breaking down the waste.

Cover it in a few inches of forest debris and you've got a little totally
unnoticed waste facility plant working to do what nature does best.
Recycling us into the next generation of plants and animals.

--------------------------------------------------
Fallingwater

My group has been using the "shit soup" method now for about 6-7 years and instruct all first timers with us on how to do it. The only thing that is even remotely a problem sometimes is finding a stick sturdy enough to stand up to the stirring. A rare problem. We do stir in a lot of soil or whatever to aid in the decomposition and I've noticed that once the soil gets stirred in the odor goes away completely and the tp disappears. I leave the stir stick in the ground after overfilling like a little flag to give any other hiker a heads up. We also use the end of our hiking poles to dig the slit trench. They will out perform a trowel nicely by cutting through small roots and digging out small rocks and gravel.

My "kit" consists of latex gloves, adult butt wipes, alcohol pad packets, tp, and various zip-lock bags to haul out the butt wipes and gloves. One could say that yes, I am a bit phobic about self contamination especially on multi-day hikes.

VERY interesting. I am certainly glad to see a more intelligent perspective than the "Pack all the TP out" statements. (Yosemite NP was instructing the JMT hikers to do that several years ago.)

Ken, I found that discussion on the PCT-L listserve. Here's the link. Interesting reading.   TP decomposition - 3 P's

The stirring part or adding water is a new idea to me, but it certainly makes sense. I just figured the next winter season, with any sort of snow cover, would completely compost the waste. I'll try to use the improved process.

When I cover a cat hole, my method is to leave two sticks covering it in an X pattern.

...Of course none of this applies to the Whitney Zone, since we need to pack out those Wag bags. But I do want to try putting the used wag bag into one of those odorless food bags to see if that helps with the odor problem. LOKSAK OPSak Odor-Proof Barrier Bags

Last time I was caught out, I was well above timber line & there were no sticks to be found. However, it was nasty diarrhea, so no stirring was required.

All ceremony, process, etiquette, demeanor, and any semblance of dignity are absent in these circumstances. If you're REALLY lucky you have a chance to at least get a bit of privacy behind a tree or boulder.

In viewing the Main Trail from Trail Camp on up, I cannot see any coverage where one would have any privacy -- perhaps a kilt or skirt would come in handy???

The rest of the party were a furlong away, in plain sight - they told me that they heard it. TMI.

Gosh, you're just full of.......interesting information.

Yeah, that's it. Interesting information that we all enjoy reading.

A decade from now,assuming we maintain current progress in GIS systems, that particular poop might be a shining light (in the IR spectrum), and a hundred years from now, the coprophage scientists will be weaving improbable scenarios... Oh. Shit!.

I have noticed that those who come from colonial english speaking countries have a delightful ability to discuss even the most crass of topics with a hint of elegance and a healthy dose of universal humour.

B

Must be a special wagga-bag thing . . . thanks for sharing.

AAC "Exit Strategies" conference

International conference on the problems, issues, strategies, and issues in human waste management in the mountains.

Interesting! Last summer I hiked the JMT and packed out all my TP. Well, actually, I packed it 'til I had an occasional campfire. I wish I would have had the "shit soup" recipe !

.... next time!