Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?

Yes, and it won't be the first (or last) time a prestigious organization puts out an opinion piece that's drivel.

But, drivel is drivel.

So put that in your beard and FREEZE it

cracking up

"Help! I've (used trekking poles my entire life and now I've) fallen and can't get up!"

I read the linked article.

While the article lists both advantages and disadvantages, I thought it was pretty obvious that the stated advantages greatly outwewighed the stated disadvantages, and that some of the disadvantages were more like stating the obvious and were easily overcome. The "disadvantage" of raising your heart rate due to higher upper body exertion is listed earlier in the article as an advantage, and even so, I would think that less lower body work (since poles spread out the exertion over the body more evenly) would offset and nullify any "disadvantage" of an increased heart rate due to added upper body work. From my own experience, I would disagree with the conclusion that hiking poles are unnecessary for the normal healthy hiker. I am neither old, fat, nor ill, and they are very helpful to me in numerous situations without any of the disadvantages stated in the article. Certainly there are situations where using hiking poles is not a good idea (where you have to use your hands, and if you are more likely to trip over them than not). But these exceptions are fairly self-evident and still do not, in my mind, outweigh the far greater advantages of using them in the remaining more frequent situations. Taking little "elastic" baby steps mostly down an 11-mile trail (in the case of the MWWT) is not an option for most people if they want to get down without taking hours to do it. What the article did get right in the end is stating that every hiker should weigh the advantages against the disadvantages and proceed accordingly. So after having read the article, I personally see no disadvantages whatsoever to using hiking poles on something like a normal Mt. Whitney Trail dayhike while carrying at least a daypack (which most everyone hiking that trail carries).


Agree. Having said that, however, they are beneficial.

CaT

Gosh, one must feel for those poor blind people, sentenced to progressive loss of balance due to their white poles.

My experience is that my poles are very proprioceptive, after years of use.

This is a very good point.....technique matters. I see many people with poles, which by their use is obviously only decoration.

How you use the straps, how you hold the handles, how long you have them....all make a big difference in how they work and feel. I've made a lot of adjustments over time.

I get the UIAA newsletter regularly, and they often have very high quality articles and research. But not always, caveat emptor

Alright.....confession. I've about a dozen pair.

I started out with non-adjustable ski poles.

The current models are astonishingly better in design and quality.

As others have mentioned, the clip-locking as opposed to twisting are far superior.

Are they absolutely necessary? No.

Is there technique involved? Yes.

Do I use them all the time? No.

If there is a good bit of walking/skiing involved, I take them. But if the route calls for more scrambling, then probably not, as they get in the way. BTW: at the end of a long day, coming down something steep, they do help quite a bit.

CaT,

Because I do find them to be beneficial, I own a multiple pairs.

As stated, I owned a pair of Leki Super Maks for over a decade and every winter they would collapse all to frequently. About 4 years ago, I decided on a pair of BD Ellipticals with flick locks and have never looked back.

It seem Leki in their infinite wisdom and, most likely, loss of market share to Black Diamond have gone the flick lock route.

For noobs, there is a lot to learn and buy in very little time before they head up the MMWT. If I knew then what I know now, I would have delayed my first trip up the mountain by a year...and I was successful.

I'm glad that your poles have been effective for you. I use mine at times too. However, I think that your claim to have extended your nervous system into your poles is some of that medical drivel we've been warned about. If you have extended your nervous system into your poles, we'll expect you to appear in the next Transformers movie.

Dale B. Dalrymple

wbtravis - I have a pair of high-end twist-tightened Lekis (with shock absorbers) that I bought at WPS some years ago. They are still doing fine. I find the snap-lock concept intriguing, as I have sometimes had difficulties with the twist-lock variety (all user difficulties, I'm sure). If/when I need to replace my current pair, I'll certainly check out the snap-lock model.


So I guess, in his case, hiking without his poles would be unnerving. :wink:

CaT

I'm piling on with the group who would not climb a steep rocky trail without poles. The warranty on my knees has expired - using poles for downhill is no longer optional - I need them. I find the extra weight of the poles is not a factor unless you're carrying them in your pack.

This thread advanced my vocabulary with a new word "proprioceptive" and made me think about upgrading my old Komperdale twist locks. Great, my wife loves these perpetual gear upgrades.

I loaned one of my poles to my hiking partner coming down the backside on Whitney. He was one of those guys that didn't believe in them until then. He went on down to Trail Camp without me leaving me with just one pole. When I got to the switchbacks my knees were already feeling it so I collapsed the pole and used it to glissade down the chute in lieu of an ice ax. That was the end of the trail for that pole as it bent and never would open up again. A week later someone got out of control and died glissading down the chute so I felt lucky nothing worse happened.

With those long skinny legs and long really skinny poles he has quite a ganglion appearance.

I heard that Black Diamond held a patent on that design but it ran out so other companies immediately started making flip lock.

Not unlike pharmaceutical products and generic brands.


Well, I would probably take the "turkey legs" award when wearing shorts. :eek:

CaT

Ha! It's funny you would describe it that way, because that IS how it feels to me. I can tell in the dark, whether I'm in contact with ground, or rock. I can tell if the rock is flat, or curves off. I can create a mental image of a stream bottom that I cannot see, by what I can feel. I wonder if there is sound involved, like the cane provides for a blind person? I'm not aware, but I bet there is a subliminal effect.

In surgery, we use probes all the time to feel where we cannot see. This works very well, and seems to me to proprioceptive in nature.

well, since I started the use of the word proprioception on this thread, let me give two illustrations

(1) think curb feelers for cars. Remember those? No the curb feeler is not a literal extension of your brain, of course not Dale, but the information it gives is. The sound signal it gives tells your brain how far over to park the car. Similarly for poles, the signal they give (sound or feel) helps guide you on the trail, knowing where to put your foot.

(2) skiing poles offer some of the same proprioceptive information on the slopes instead of the trail.

(3) Grand Canyon deaths were mentioned on another thread. A common cause of death is standing on the edge, losing spatial awareness, and plopping over the cliff. Just holding onto a tree, or railing ,etc gives proprioceptive clues to staying upright. Even looking at the ground nearby is helpful. Looking out at the vistas with just visual clues is often not good enough because the far, far distance and tiny angles of motion. That clue plus the even worse inner inner balance function gets you into trouble. Just touching something else gives you "hard data" . Just as an aside, if anyone thinks their inner ear balance function is good, then why do pilots flying in a cloud bank without instrumentation find themselves at extreme bank angles, thinking they were level? It seems like physical and visual clues are far more powerful than the inner ear/brain balance function for all of the scenarios listed here.

As for me, I actually prefer a single hiking staff. I prefer its rigidity, especially for going down with a load. And when stopped I prefer to not fiddle with two poles tucked under my arm or rested somewhere. The fancy expensive gear testing info is useful, but it boils down eventually to personal preference.

God, you're old.

I remember them well!

I have always thought that trekking poles are just a bit of tech kool-aid, usually associated with the over-equipped, under-skilled, addicted to the latest tech for tech's sake, occassional hikers usually found in brand new, un-broken-in gear fresh from LL Bean, REI and Orvis catalogues. Until I sucked it up and dragged to the HST last year a pair of Leki Super Makalus bought in 1995 and used exclusively for back country ski poles.

Made a huge difference. So now am rarely without them, although I wish I could find just one picture of John Muir walking with two poles.

Of course, in my continued old school stubbornness, I ascribe their utility to my technique, which is naturally completely at odds with the conventional wisdom of trekking pole adjustment and use. We are taught to adjust them so that the forearm is parallel with the ground while standing. This strikes me as completely silly. How was this practice established? Trekking poles are supposed to take weight off the legs -- knees in particularly. Every other device I have ever seen to do this -- canes and crutches -- is used with the arm extended. Placing a trekking pole with the arm flexed at a right angle hardly takes any weight off the knee. Observe most poles in "correct" use, and will be be obvious that the pole is supporting no more than half the weight of the forearm (the other half being suspended from the shoulder, the weight is transferred to the leg)

I shorten my poles, and use them more like canes, and with the improved leverage find I take at least four times the weight off the legs with the same amount of force applied to the arm. And yes, I have measured this.

Makes sense. Who ever came up with the idea that a trekking pole should be adjusted for length the same way as a downhill ski pole? When you plant a ski pole, you are reaching forward, so the weight is taken with the arm extended. Plant a trekking pole of the same length on a level walk, and all that power in the arm is lost to leverage.

So yes, I use poles now. I just refuse to do it correctly.