Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Hiking personal ad.....

I don't get it. When did Mt. Baldy become challenging? It's fun in the winter but challenging. I guess if you include dodging the rockfall and the ill-prepared it is challenging.

The question should be is why does Mt. Baldy take lives, not that it takes lives. Most of the hikers and mountaineers were doing things they should not have been doing...like not putting crampons on their feet when they should have, or having them like Michelle Yu.

I don't go up that mountain all that much because it is not much of a challenge, it's exercise with 50 of your nearest and dearest friends. It is a fun glissade when conditions are right.

Blase attitude? Maybe. Irresponsible? No, Baldy is a I came, I saw, I conquered kind of mountain in the winter once things consolidate. You start climbing in the bowl, you stop climbing on the summit and you glissade down. Sorry, if I don't find an 1,800' climb all that interesting. The most dangerous thing about is the rockfall and the clueless who climb the bowl in the winter...not saying everyone is clueless just that there is a higher percentage there than I want to deal with on Saturdays. Taking noobs up that mountain in the winter, going up the bowl with trekking poles and Microspikes, going up without a helmet, going up lined up like tin soldiers...that's irresponsible and I don't do any of those things.

Going up Falling Rock Canyon or Lost Creek Canyon in Ice House Canyon are more dangerous and fun, so is Cucamonga Peak.

Could you tell me why I should go somewhere else for stating an opinion based on experience on that particular mountain and most of the mountains in that piece of federally owned real estate?

They did not use poor judgement, they had BAD LUCK, in an environment that is UNFORGIVING

One way to look at the issue is who has died and been severely injured. Immediately coming to mind are Ali Aminian, former President of California Mountaineering Club. died on Baldy
on a winter climb.

My friend, RJ Secor, famous guidebook author, one of only 4 people to have completed the entire Sierra Peaks Section list, TWICE. Severe head and brain injury on a winter glissade, on Baldy.

My good friend Gary Embrey, mountaineering instructor for decades, who died on a winter climb of Baden-Powell.

I think it is not good to trivialize any mountain that is not a simple clear trail walk-up in low altitude. After all, it is all a matter of perspective.

If you go by skills and accomplishments, my acquaintences Ed Viesturs and David Breashears would consider every thing we amateurs on this board climb to be absurdly trivial.

If they were to post about climbing, say, the east face of Whitney, they'd say, that for themselves, no training, no preparation is needed. No acclimatization, no scouting, no special gear. But of course, they are two of the great mountaineers of history. They are acclimatized at all times, and in marathon shape at all times. They are professionals, and climb for a living. Same for Peter Croft. They are guys that NO AMATEUR on this board could come remotely close to keeping up with. Not anyone.

However, they would not do so. That is because that what is appropriate for them is not right for lesser mortals, particularly the oft-beginning amateurs that may frequent this site, trying to get an idea of difficulty of things. It is HIGHLY MISLEADING to give the impression that a rank amateur should tackle a mountain and route that much more advanced climbers consider relatively simple, perhaps alone, perhaps undergeared.

And that is because such climbers do not have the JUDGEMENT that more experienced people have. Note that, in your post, you talk about people doing something that they shouldn't have. That is a judgement issue, almost always. The three climber accidents I mentioned had done their mountains many dozens of times, each, in at least one case, over a hundred. They did not use poor judgement, they had BAD LUCK, in an environment that is UNFORGIVING.

I also think about the Russian experienced climber, who it's thought went off the north side of Baldy in winter, and whose body has never been found. Experienced on much tougher mountains. It wasn't trivial for him.

So I guess, to me, it is an issue of not misleading people who don't have the experience to draw upon to give themselves the margin of safety they need, and who would not know, by your post, that there are "no fall zones", and places of objective danger that could be fatal encounters...if one is unlucky.

Remember, that for Barefoot Ted, running up Baldy in summer barefoot is a trivial trip. Would it be so for you??